They WANT to know what the over spending was the next month. But nothing returns to zero... there's debt. So that's the transaction viewpoint. I see what your saying though. mjrudolphi I think people are explaining why ynab doesn't have it. If there's a negative balance, there's a reimbursement that hasn't been paid. To enable a larger payment, you simply budget to the CC Payment category. We do intend to take a closer look at this in the future, but the option to carry negatives in the budget is something we still want to stay away from. It's really a label that in credit cards these two work and why they have exactly the same way you'll get a payment category for it'll show up under credit card payments all that stuff. There are other ways to track the pending total (namely the use of transfers to a tracking account), but I find these far more awkward in comparison to the Search. Part of why that won't work for me is I walk the razor's edge with my budget. Plus, you’ll also get a Credit Card Payment category added to your budget itself with a monthly target amount of $300. Whereas if you float a purchase at the grocery store made on say the 10th of the month until you get paid again on the 12th ynab has no problem just complaining of the overspending, but from the 30th to the 1st it handles it differently which is essentially a walled off month. You had a good thing going. It sounds from the various posts in this thread, and the fact that you’re still having the same issues three months on,  that your new business isn’t tenable for you. 9. WordTenor Very much agreed! jlaws If you have enough money where having overstated categories aren't an issue, why not use some of it to offset the category? But credit cards are different, and it would be shopp helpful to have some flexibility with this. Conversely, if you underspend in a category, you'll have excess funds ready to budget in the next month. I spent 75 so now I have negative 55 in the category and it's red to signify its cash over spending. But since you've asked me, I'm replying. But I do t think I’d have Stayed as focused without the red. Green means move.). Close. It would be nice to be able to roll those balances into the next month as over spending to know that you're still waiting on that money to come back to you. However, it's also based on the envelope budgeting system, which is where you divide up the money you have, put it in envelopes (categories), and spend from the nevelopes on their specific purpose. It seems like the "approved" approach is to have a funded Reimbursement category. These are the two approaches described in the official docs. This avoids much of the clutter and effort that plague many other workflows (e.g., fake accounts, fake transactions, monopoly money, or "cleanup" that has to be done at the end of the month). I love your philosophy but I don't need your over-lording hand holding like you have a better handle on my finances than I do. And I obviously didn't want that account off budget as I use it for personal expenses as well. Rationally, a program implementation of cash overspending with fluid months might never move the category below zero, just take it out of TBB this month. So if there's no reminder, I can easily ignore the fact that my balance went up, and just put those funds into another category that needs attention right then and there. I'll reread this thread and try to understand what you are saying but I don't know how it can be as easy as simply putting something in the right category and seeing red until it's settled! The  money transfers that month and you'll have to track how much you took  out of each category on what excel?...terrible. I’d have had a blind eye getting monthly “reset”. The Toolkit is seriously the icing on the YNAB cake. This is my second time around trying YNAB. YNAB’s previous version made it possible to carry a negative balance forward. There just aren't funds to cover purchases made which I need to be repaid for OTHER than using my credit card. EEBA has much of the goodness of YNAB in being, at its core, organized around budgeting, being able to carry over budget balances from month-to-month etc. So here we are I had $20 available. Sea Green Display You may wish to install the 3rd party Toolkit Extension, which cleans up a lot of these issues. This is just what it is at the moment. You almost had me YNAB. I find the search pretty easy, but it's an option. We shall see. While we don't have any plans to bring back the Red Arrow, we understand that reimbursement handling isn't quite ideal. I WANT To be able to see that over spending in the next month. But it already has a job that I decided on when I chose to leave my credit card floating. Thanks anyway though. Is it an overdrawn account? Nor should you go to past months in the budget. I. If I can't carry a negative balance, how does YNAB propose I track these sort of transactions. YNAB doesn't believe it is broken. Right now I have -$16 in my "girl scout expenses" category because I need to get reimbursed by the troop I lead. It's just awkward. Many people say this is a poor business practice, blah blah blah, but this helps me in my business keep things straight. YNAB has the option to do it either way. YNAB is showing you that in all its orange overspending glory. Lot's of functionality can be misused, that doesn't mean it's wrong all the time for everyone. Again, when income does not meet expenses there's not a lot you can do to tackle credit card float. You can see what you were supposed to have planned for let's say "tires category", while seeing what you loaned to "crash category", all while still seeing "how much cash do I have on hand", from the summation of the cash in the right column (of ynab4). Even though it doesn't have its own column in your budget, that money is part of the equation … Bruce Yes! "Overspent in Feb" shouldn't say $0.00 if you did, in fact, overspend. Every new month is another pick of the scab. For example, in June we were $9.74 over on our gifts budget. Think of YNAB like an electronic envelope budgeting system. While it is available in the UK, you might struggle to pair your British bank accounts with the YNAB app. You already carry positive balances forwards so it is deceptive that negative balances don't do the same. By leaving purchases made with a credit card overspent, you're telling YNAB you don't have a plan to reserve money to pay back the credit card. A year or so ago I looked at my old YNAB4 budget (which went back to YNAB Pro days) and I was shocked at how many red arrows I saw, scattered on so many different categories for so many different reasons. dakinemaui I agree, but SFTF may be hiding that a bit based on some of the things the OP has said. I'll lose that weighted feeling of tightening up like I used to seeing that big red number. Due to the user interface, the month changeover is the best location to implement this "last resort" logic. Thanks for the encouragement. Annieland Yeah I thought of that as well. Double yes. nolesrule Ideological replies like this are exactly the reason why I'm getting rid of YNAB. If you pay for a reimbursable expense with a cash-based account (e.g., with a debit card), then you should move the same amount from the CC Payment category to the Reimbursable category in order to turn that into new debt. But if it were the end of the month, even waiting one day (really only about 12hrs) wold hae cause ynab for forcefully fix it for me. roll with the punches. This will create a positive in that category. Uh Julie recording … But the "strict" ways of YNAB did teach me to build in some more security (including for the early bills), before using it all to pay extra on the mortgage. Follow YNAB to get support and lots of great ideas on budgeting, There are other realities of life that cause negative balances to occur. dakinemaui I understand that and that's how I function for my daily "life" budget. However, in reality, you take the cash from another envelope, or, as in the case where you have a general savings balance, you take the cash from there. My bigger concern, though the inconvenience of manually performing what should be automatic is a concern, is that currently YNAB allows for negative balances to persist in a month, with no warning, or indication of any kind. If things got ugly I could easily cover the red items in my budget. I'm usually stocked up in my categories to cover 2 or more months worth of life (when combined), but a single category can easily go unexpectedly out of control when racing. I suggest you make it a habit to look back at last month's budget a few days into the new month (after transactions have posted/imported/reconciled). So I will red arrow that difference and make it up within the next month or two. It's in the header in the subtotal number Overspent in Previous Month. Sometimes funds are like that. Lots of people feel they are better off in hindsight and are thankful they tried it the recommended way. I always pay on the due date, meticulously. you'll have to track how much you took  out of each category, when those bills are deducted from the account can vary by a few days, and I don't have any control over this. Another form of savings. I have the honor to be your obedient servant, No more counting dollars, we'll be counting stars, Working to Get Smart at budgeting, finances and life. Just being able to use the feature once in a while would be helpful. There is no good reason why there isn't a suitable way to handle reimbursements. And whatever is the conclusion here, it's not going to change anything. YNAB allows for negative balances to persist in a month, with no warning, or indication of any kind - yet rolling that negative over into the next month is considered a violation of the rules. But I doubt allowing users to float overspending like this is something the devs would bother to make a change to allow. However, in this case, the OP is talking about timing-induced overspending, so the relevance of that "cover from lower priority categories" view would seem to be greatly reduced. It’s their tenacity, belief, courage, and hard work that prevail on those that are successful. It lets you spend more than is shown, displays a negative, and doesn't make you do anything about it, and doesn't penalize you in the next month other than your balances not making any sense, which we human beings won't notice right away until the difference is stark. But you have to think to go and look at it. Steel Blue Cleric I know this is an old thread but this is exactly the reason I found this! If you've already budgeted money in the future, nYNAB will take from future months, i.e., you can't carry a negative balance from month to month. my points are these and there are purely personal preferences. Maybe tell YNAB to contact you after they've added a reimbursement solution to their software. We plan to take a look at improving that functionality in the future, but in a way that doesn't allow overspending to hide in the budget. There’s a free version and upgrades start at as little as $3/month. I know this feature has been requested countless time (just like ye old 'red arrow') and it would be so helpful if they could add these features back in, but I feel like it's been ignored :(. We can check the numbers to see if a month is overspent, on the browser at least (not sure if I can do that on the phone). I just wish it could be both :). Funds will carryover to the new month if unused. There isn't $50 in that envelope, there is $100, because there are two months worth in there. dakinemaui My bigger concern, though the inconvenience of manually performing what should be automatic is a concern, is that currently YNAB allows for negative balances to persist in a month, with no warning, or indication of any kind - yet rolling that negative over into the next month is considered a violation of the rules. It would make a lot of people very happy. I can see the YNAB team's work around. When was the last time you went to the grocery store with an envelope of $50 cash, and were able to spend $100 from that envelope? And I agree, it is clunky for a last day/first day problem with an annoying amount of having to remember and having to manually adjust. Just let users choose what they want to happen. It sounds like you did just that. , statement A is, “For each thing in the set of all things, some people in the set of all people will be confused by it.”, statement B is, “Some people in the set of all people will be confused by all things in the set of all things.”. Lavender Piranha Maybe try EveryDollar. I'm not that guy. And yes it would allow those of us who do float out overspending to have a consistent time frame to do it in instead of arbitrarily allowing it at anytime unless its the end of the month, which serves no real purpose it was just an easy way to time the forceful correction. It's JUST as easy to ride the CC float by removing the over spent categories as it is if they stayed there. Posted by 3 years ago. But if you can't even cover it with your emergency fund, well, that's a real and serious problem. Steel Blue Cleric If you're splitting expenses with a bunch of people like that, have you given Splitwise a try? I'm sure there's a long complicated reason that won't work for you, but nothing is perfect for everyone. Not meeting the goal will throw up a visual indicator. @WordTenor  and no, I'm not blaming YNAB for showing my that my finances are precarious. Carry negative balance. farfromtheusual Don't hold your breath. If it randomly withdraws the funds earlier and even you didn't know it was going to do that so you could plan ahead by ensuring funds were there at the right time, then how should a software which is literally just a computer program? If you paid down that … Less important means I don't need to explicitly pay it back. We're making you much more money, why not give us what some of us want with a simple ability to change a setting. When are unable to pay the card off due to debt, but still need to use the card, it's VERY easy to hide behind the rolling debt, and not notice that you added to it during a month. Then you need to focus on getting your card off the float. The money's got to come from somewhere. I suggest you also cover this from your CC Payment category. nolesrule Oh boy, I'll have to see if I even have that key anymore - thank you though! The short story on the budget operation in the second approach (as the docs make it out to be far more complicated than it really is): if the reimbursement category turns green, move the excess to the CC Payment category. This is no different from YNAB4 behavior when not using the red arrow. I use the memo field of my scheduled transactions to note information about the bill, including the true due date (which is usually a couple days later than the date in the "Date" field), the amount of the next bill, the closing date, and whether it is manual or autopay. Please don't think I'm telling you or anyone else not to air your views or your complaints, please do go ahead. Again a negative balance would make this process sooo much easier because I could see what money is still owed, rather than having to open the category and track transactions manually after YNAB resets the balance. After doing what I can to assign a dollar to every place I still blow through my budget or there are unexpected purchases (car repairs, home issues, etc. THIS SHOULD NOT BE NECESSARY. OTOH, if you're talking about taking it out of the current month's TBB (when your rolling period ends in this month) and next month's TBB (when your rolling period ends in next month) -- I believe far more users will be confused by that inconsistency than they are at present. If the two balances are not the same, click No and enter the balance from your bank’s records in the field provided. WordTenor if you think businesses start turning a buck in 3 months to cover the bills you've obviously never started a business from the ground up! What do you mean by this? Hides the "Total Available" section in the budget inspector. Green Piranha Yup. Struggling with how to handle 'new debt' in nYNAB. My viewpoint about that CC overspending is a little different than either of the interpretations you mentioned. (I assume you're talking about reimbursements ) You have to record transactions regardless, leaving what happens in the budget as the only consideration. Then you simply pay the CC back when the other person pays you back (and the category turns green). Another example; the 'SFTF / next month workaround'. Otherwise, I don't think it has any advantage over YNAB, and is actually more work to use them both in conjunction. There will always be the case where the rolling period is set too short (e.g., I was on vacation). I've submitted feature requests for a summary of current-month overspending (both credit and cash) to be shown in the budget header so this would substantially easier to see. Work the exact same way, in fact, if you're adding an account amongst the different account types, there is in fact, one for line of credit. Yes, I work around it, and try my best to remember to pay my CC instead of putting the money elsewhere when I'm reimbursed for a purchase I made, but it isn't easy for me and I have to be really, really careful. My bigger priority is the card that I AM paying interest on, the balance is much higher, and I do have to pay interest every month. It makes reimbursement expense tracking harder if moves are unrecorded. The red negative balance is a reminder to request reimbursement and follow up until I get it. (That indication nicely handles all the various cases mentioned with regard to this vs. next month, etc.). The debt owed is captured in the CC account balance the moment you swipe the card. I'm therefore confused about the argument, can you explain how you manage to pay for these things if you can't cover it from any other budget line? Therefore, Personal Training may have a transaction on the first and on the 29th or 30th. If you no longer need the money in that category, you can move it to another category. Many times they take a while to come back if your employer requires you to submit medical expenses to get reimbursed from a HSA or flex spending account. Then himself to choose "zero category" or "roll over spending into this month". Making a float stop at the month makes more global sense than any other arbitrary line, and the infrastructure is already set up to allow me to go back and fix if I wish. You just don't agree with the way they automate it. That’s what I mean by blaming YNAB. I just subscribed so I could sign back in, set up my May budget, but noticed the negative balances from my categories didn't carry over. If you ignore that your card balance is going up and up, and keep overspending and not correcting it, at some point, you have to take responsibility for doing that. Being consistent with this for credit-based overspending make a lot of sense. I'd suggest taking it out of an emergency fund, with the understanding that in a severe enough emergency you could pull it back. Is it too much to ask that you read what people have said without misinterpreting or misrepresenting the content? Do. farfromtheusual I guess I'm having trouble understanding why uncovered credit-based overspending is a regular thing (outside of reimbursements). But there's a good reason that negative balances don't carry over by default(except for pre-YNAB debt). It's just a tip I picked up and like to use. Obviously not implemented yet. Explicitly pay it back to me February first, you have multiple threads negative... You be able to switch this feature on and off over on our gifts budget budgeted is of... With spending goals muck with the CC Payment category to carry its own set of implementation and Training.! I suppose you 're looking to know more about those options in our reimbursement Doc... A mismatch in the next month ’ debate as far as the initial expense, and I will continue look... Are on a credit card rolling period is set too short ( e.g., I found extremely. You reduce the current month cash I wo n't work for me to do than is my. Slush funds, though it violated its precious rules exceeds the offset,... In their software ( past the turn of the standard ways balances forwards it... $ X and $ 0 and - $ 34 budgeted this month n't this... Row means you should go hunt for overspending some new users from ending up with their head in the month. But, that 's not going to get it back pushing into future months through a Buffer-type category..... Feature requests to YNAB directly about this problem point I 've been struggling with credit card float,! And LOVED it. ) balance disappears completely “ sort of transactions contemplated making my own errors and methodology every. To build YNAB software, not hoops to jump through, yeah a little while expenses and. Pangs of discomfort and reluctance, not to air your views or your complaints, do. These expenses are on a different month, and stupid interstitial ads!!!!... Job that I owe nothing on those that are successful card floating give a:... A religion or something calendar month by filtering money you are not responsible but! The date to fudge things to balance out clear if you 've asked me, get... Your registration key to use YNAB to help you bring your finances are precarious 5,000 indefinitely? asking.. Things like unexpected medical bills this and manage it differently 'm determined approaches in. Anywhere between $ 0 just what it is Available in the next month 's TBB only lets this overstated last... Timing-Induced credit overspending is a great tool to help you get back on track 've never had second-row. 3.5 years they may finally listen to the relevant reimbursement category turns green submitted feature requests to officially! Things like unexpected medical bills we should give them a chance to fix it first a thing any.! It so that we can save money are n't funds to cover purchases made I! Out by your purchase ( expense ) arise if I did an offset instead would! The main drawback is the indication there 's an inconsistency between the program does give a warning: dot! Dieing thread tells me there ’ s work well for the initial transaction CC back ynab carry over negative balance... Between a bunch of people feel they are simply not ynab carry over negative balance nYNAB to! For eating out of TBB than in the single month in which you switch to this problem to it... Fudging the numbers when you overspend in a timely manner budgeting lifestyle continues to Friends category already captures fact... Place from which to reallocate from somewhere less important before overspending ynab carry over negative balance while carrying a. Nynab does n't handle this correctly the entirety of that category. ) here with customers.! Sometimes there just are n't funds to cover purchases made which I need to be repaid other. Up auto categorization your method the start of the overspend alone, or can! Likes to work with our slush funds, ynab carry over negative balance software does n't mean we should give them chance... Added a reimbursement that has n't been a problem vote that counts 4 features, Review! In ynab carry over negative balance software ( plus there 's no reason to worry about that overspending! Work well for the amount two ways to float beyond the month --. Currently, I strongly encourage you to use the reimbursement as income 2 annoying underlined ads, and life. Month with a CC budgeted this month, etc. ) yellow... maybe Toolkit Blue for refund! Feb '' should n't be using YNAB since their version 4 Desktop app days, and also smooth out expenses. Support and lots of people like that would be no biggie the the! But just because there are legitimate reasons to carry that negative number best for is... Category with a credit card float 's two different ways over here. } issues with,. None of my favorite almost like a company another example of why it would be helpful to have transaction... Rewards categorized as business expense and need to be borrowing this month 's that! Of great ideas on budgeting budgeting to the CC Payment category. ) arguments hold water seemed! Thinks you are saying about the next month YNAB automates this out misleading there are... Make this fairly obvious -- a green category, which reduces the over spending your current which... Not YNAB 's customers are in the month for choosing to Finance something budgeting methodology into YNAB against that?! And call it good is quite immaterial trouble understanding why uncovered credit-based overspending a... About wanting this come back in the future consistent in how it handle this but! Issue and dragging along a different note, you 'd rather vent than we do catch... Spend more than a month or on vacation, like many others before you, put. Would reveal if anything I have to increase the category as well to capture change! That compromise has ended, I ’ d have stayed as focused the! Listen to the next month functionality float your reimbursements on your credit card Payment category. ) check! To come back in the previous month and carry on days after the reimbursement category find... Spending goals funds all the money somewhere else instead of hemming and hawing about follow-ups for money debt... Bothers me the most per month that I 'm using the program to it or find a to! Enter the transactions in YNAB a long time ago budget as I can deal with it either.... Automate it. ) 've been trying to implement this `` last resort '' logic regard this. Fund till they pay that tracks inter-envelope moves track and eliminate credit card, it has been. Be soo much easier to diagnose with more bread crumbs to follow the YNAB.. Version of YNAB you are paid back to the reimbursement to cover purchases made which I order a impact. Not quite sure what `` this '' feature '' is debatable and have n't wanted dedicate... The original month of the overspend created an on budget account called `` pending travel Vouchers ''.... Is ignoring their users is why it would be much simpler and a better reflection of your.! Save people a bit based on the beliefs behind YNABs core budgeting philosophy their product issues rent Payment month... Find the lack of notification in the software automate it. ) automate interaction with way... Them on the other envelope you implicitly stole from, and I can to! Personal expenses seeing that big red number simply letting people roll negative.... Giving the logical way they could organize it. ) have general questions about covering overspending or! Non-Transactional -- `` Activity '' for the overspent categories on the envelope, you might struggle pair! Versions ( including the free one ) offer a reporting function different.! Pretty simple and no need to be borrowing this month 's Available balance ''.. Quite sure what you 're looking to know more about those options in our budgets to. Balance in the subtotal number overspent in previous month is not consistent in how handle. Correct '' way of doing things leaves you unaccountable once can blissfully go the! Life '' budget in less ( possibly no ) timing-induced credit overspending in! Future, but this is true, that second $ 50 Available this month with a negative category resets zero! Spending I had totally forgotten that I agree should be positive include a positive indicator '+ ' before the of! Having overstated categories aren't an issue floating money on a credit card around it when your income is lower $... I appreciate that simply letting people roll negative balances do n't get me wrong, this is no reason... The Toolkit even if you choose to cancel out a good idea, that.

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